Positive Gene Podcast: Graceful Grit: Mindfulness Tools for Scanxiety, Uncertainty, and Everyday Courage | Season 3 Ep #3

With Guest Lisa Jacobs, Founder, Practice to the Point

(Links mentioned in the Episode are location. atthe bottom of the page)

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Sara

 Hi, friends. Welcome to the positive Gene podcast. I'm your host, Sara Kavanaugh. And I'll be honest, this time of year kind of catches me off guard. We're approaching the fall season right now, and routines are shifting, and suddenly there's a mix of like moment and then reflection right in the air.

So for those of us living with hereditary cancer risk, the seasonal shift can stir up a lot. I think that's at least how I feel, especially when it comes to getting reset with your scan schedules, decision fatigue, and then just the emotional weight that comes with living in the in-between. And if you're living with hereditary cancer risk, you know what I mean by that. So if you've ever found yourself bracing for a screening result or waking up with that quiet worry in your chest, you're not alone. In this episode is for you.

Today I'm joined by Lisa Jacobs, a leadership coach, mindfulness facilitator, and the founder of practice to the Point. Lisa's work is rooted in what she calls graceful grit, I love that. Supporting people through uncertainty by helping them soften into presence, emotional intelligence and grounded action.

So in this conversation, we're going to explore mindfulness, vulnerability, and the intention that carries us through harder moments, and not by fixing everything, right, but by showing up. Fully.

Inspired by her father's cancer journey, Lisa brings a deep, grounded energy to her work, blending emotional intelligence, vulnerability, and actionable tools for navigating uncertainty. In this episode, we're going to talk about the power of mindfulness, how to stay grounded before screenings or health decisions, and what it means to lead with authenticity, especially when you're carrying a long term risk. So let's get to it. Welcome to the show, Lisa. 

Lisa

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Sara

Awesome. I'm excited to have you too. So let's talk about the experience that really shaped how you show up in your life and your work. You've talked in the past about your father's diagnosis and how it shifted your priorities. Can you give us a bit of background? 

Sticky Takeaways (save these)

• “Presence isn’t passive—it’s powerful.”

• “Name it to tame it: This is scanxiety. It’s a real, natural response.”

• “Reduce the size of the moment: this is one wave, not the whole ocean.”

• “Ask: What am I in control of right now? Breath, posture, environment, support.”

• “If you don’t feel the feelings, they’ll find you — balance grace with grit.”

Try-It-Now Practices

• 5 breaths: Slow inhales/exhales; by breath #5 your nervous system starts to follow.

• 4-4-6 breath: Inhale 4, hold 4, exhale 6 (let out more than you take in).

• Grounding: Feet on the floor, soften jaw/shoulders, notice 3 things you can see/hear/feel.

• Micro-goal: One tiny completion (send the message, pack your bag, make the playlist).

• Curiosity over judgment: Replace “What if…?” spirals with “I wonder…?”

• Ritual: A consistent playlist for imaging appointments; a small kindness before/after.

Lisa

Absolutely. So my mindfulness practice is my dad's gift to me. So about 20 years ago, maybe a little bit less. My dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and it was a time in my life where we didn't know what was wrong with him. He didn't feel great. He had all different types of symptoms, and it was in the middle of the smer. You know, we had young children nine, seven and five, all in de camp. And it was visiting day where my husband and I were going to get in the car, go run around chasing them. And my dad called and he said they found out what's wrong with me. And it was just horrible. So much worse than I could have imagined. To find out he had pancreatic cancer, to find out it was not a treatable disease. 

He was very involved in the health community. He sat on board, so he was familiar with what was going on and then what that looked like. And that day was probably one of the most difficulties. And it was the start of making really, really hard decisions in that moment of like my husband and I, just one went one way. One went the other way, you know, he went to camp, he stayed present with the children. He followed them around and I stayed home. You know, I felt all the grief, the shock, the sadness. , and it was just the beginning. Right. And so for the next two and a half years, I navigated my dad. Journey of chemo and treatments and things like that. And so what I noticed at the beginning was how hard it was to figure it out. Right? Right. You know, I little kids, you read them to bed at night. You drive them to activities. Very physical. They can't bathe themselves at five. You know, their version of a bath is swimming in the bathtub without soap. And so all that physical, you know, all those physical demands needed to be done. And I couldn't be present at bath time and present, you know, at chemo. 

And so decisions started to become, uh, very difficult. First day of chemo, first day of school. Where did I need to be? , I'm the oldest of thre, my dad chose to be treated 100 miles away in New York City. And at the time, I lived right outside of Philadelphia. And I had a business just, you know, and I invitation business very deadline driven. So it was a moment of I can't do it all and how do I do this? Right. So, you know, we all feel invincible at moments as young moms or invincible and moments and then all of a sudden things happen like this and they're like little figures. 

And how do we navigate from that space? So I wasn't at the first day of school, I was at the first day of chemo. I feeling like an awful mom, but knowing that there will be other first days. And I was grateful and lucky enough to have a partner that was going to go and be the parent. And I went to the first day of chemo with my parents. And, you know, as we navigated a day, a week, a year, I had no idea we figured it out. 

But the foundation to what I do every day of my life, whether it's professional or personal, is the practice to the point where with awareness of this horrible thing that happened to us, to me, and the impact it had, you know, we create a movement through that to take action around it. So how did I choose? When you have the value of family, which I do, it's much it's very easy to say, oh, I want to go to the birthday party and celebrate, right? Not so easy to say. I'm choosing the first day of chemo. It's not the most attractive thing going. The first day of school and taking pictures a little bit easier. But you know, being present is very important to me. And so what that looked like was the hard work I had to do in the early years, or my dad was sick. And that's the foundation for all the learning. And that's what came out of that two and a half year journey. 

Sara

So you took that experience where you let me get back to my notes here. I want to like ground this question in. You know, shifting from really this challenging emotional experience that you went through, that you much like the metaphor you gave for you and your husband that day, you found out your dad's diagnosis. Your husband went one way. He focused on the kids getting things going, and you had to focus on being present with your dad, right? And your parents. But you took that approach for the long term. So those couple of years as you were navigating that process. But in between all of that, it eventually led you from kind of this corporate finance world and entrepreneurship and then into leadership coaching and mindfulness focus. Talk to me about how you made that shift of, like, I'm going to take this life experience and empower others to navigate through their life experience, whatever it may be, dealing with hereditary cancer risk or a diagnosis themselves or experiencing, you know, some hardship in their life. What did you do in that time period that led you to where you are today, providing this, you know, invaluable coaching experience to other people navigating some of life's more difficult challenges? 

Lisa

Thanks, Sara. So for those of you listening to this podcast, I am not the linear trajectory for a career path. You know, I started I've an undergraduate degree in finance. I started in banking. Way back when? 30 years ago. Middle market lending, seven days a week. New York City, you know, no cell phones. The grind, the grind, the grind. And I would say that first chapter I was in corporate for maybe ten years, you know, started out in, in banking and kind of shifted over into advertising, you know, for lifestyle choices, mental wellness, things like that. Women, glass ceilings. And then that next chapter is when my kids were little. Right. How do I it happens through all different things. You know, Mattel bought Tyco toys. There was job duplication. I have my children. And so one thing led to another and I said, you know, what do I want to do next? And I, I got clear that I wanted my own, our, my own boss, which was me, and that was my business as an entrepreneur for the next 15 years. And I love what I did and made people happy. Wedding invitations, bar mitzvah invitations, birth announcements. I mean, what could be better? It was deadline driven and I could do it in the hours with little kids. 

And so I hope I'm answering your question. But like that third chapter, which where I've been in the space. You know, for the rest of my career, , happened around my dad's diagnosis, and now I co-lead with children right when I'm front of the room, sometimes I co-lead, and so I'm not always driving the car. Sometimes I'm sitting in the passenger seat, sometimes I'm in the back seat where my kids were learning to drive. Sometimes I really want to be in the trunk and not know what's going on. But the point is, is that everything led me to that point around leadership. 

And so the trajectory of, you know, like, if you know me, you know, I said I needed to find more space in my heart for my dad's journey. And people are like, I don't even know what that means. And I'm like, I need more love. I need more space to be present with the hard stuff, right? So I ended up finding yoga, and that's what I, you know, ended up practicing for the past 20 years. It gave me such a physical space to feel my feelings, to move through them. How you are on the mat is off the mat. And then I kind of went from there. Whether it was a leadership coaching, speaking on the stage, running workshops, I want to, you know, connect with people at the hardest times in their life, the times in their life when they're not clear, when they're overwhelmed with making choices and decisions and bringing a little light to that, which is something that I had to dig really deep to find. . 

Sara

It's great. So you kind of give us a little bit of that timeline of that experience. , you know, being a mother and, you know, a daughter and a leader in an organization. So how has that more recent personal transformation influenced how you support others? Right. I love the metaphor that you just used of driving or being a passenger or just sometimes being in the trunk. So, you know, tell me how this, you know, we're recent transformation for you, maybe not super recent, but you've been coaching for some time now, you know, how did that life transformation influence how you support others? 

Lisa

Yeah, and I use that metaphor on the car a lot. You know, getting into, you know, alignment, you know, starting with awareness. Oh, my car needs to get service, you know, or driving down the street and gravitating towards the right. So I need a little bit more alignment. Planning a trip, you know, and they close the road that you're driving. But how did it happen? You know, how did I stble into the past 15 years? I think leadership changed for me. You know, I was front of the room always. 

I tell everybody what to do, boss. Bossy boss. And I think that through marriage and through being the oldest of three, through working through my parents, you know, I learned how to stand beside people. You know, how to support them from behind. You could stand side by side in the coaching, stand by, side by side in my leadership work, side by side with my husband. But everything starts with your center. You have to love yourself. You have to be present with yourself. And what I learned with my dad is I really wasn't present at that time of my life. I was on autopilot because I have little kids doing, doing, doing not so good at being. I didn't have that pause switch the same way when you're running, running, running. And so when I coach, whatever I'm doing, it's really that that pause switch. 

And it's it's also doing it for myself, getting on my mat, doing the work, journaling, whatever it is, and knowing what it's like not to be present is as helpful to anyone's practice as it is to know when you are present.  

Sara

I was thinking, you know, we reach a certain point, whether it's age or experience, but you get wisdom, right? You gain some wisdom with that experience. And, you know, I turned 51 and I feel like, oh my gosh, there's so much I want my kids to learn, but I want them to learn it now. So they're not 51. And finding themselves figuring out how to, you know, manage difficult situations, right. I tell them all the time, like, the more you do hard things, the easier it becomes to do hard things. And I do think about my kids inheriting some of those things that maybe you think that they're not seeing it, but they are. So I want to give them tools now, right. And not wait until they're later in life to figure this out. And I think that's one thing that I love about you. Bringing this conversation to the table is like informing our guests. Like, you don't have to wait until you have experience and age. To be wise and to figure these things out, you can start incorporating some tools and resources to help you navigate this process. And no matter where you are in your hereditary cancer journey, there are elements that we're going to talk about today that are going to help you navigate that uncertainty. And we talked a bit about f. And so that's a common topic as well. So how about we transition to you briefly talked about this yoga like making space in your heart. And sometimes you hear these phrases and you're like well what if somebody said to you, well what do you mean? What do you mean by that? So let's talk about what? Like what does getting present look like for somebody facing anxiety or just facing a major health decision? 

Lisa

Yeah, I just want to back up for a second because I always try to frame out presence with anxiety and resentment. Right. So being present in the and meeting the more is is really, really hard. And it's a moment to moment practice right. When we're anxious, it's usually too much future or future tripping. What if worrying this could happen. That could happen. Yeah right. But it creates that, you know, that worry when we are angry or or we got that thing in our throat that shouldn't have happened that way. We're stuck in the past. It's resentment. I should have done it differently. I would have could. I coach on that a lot. We all do. I. There's so many things I would do differently. I wish I had a feeling wheel when my kids were a little and I put it in the bathroom wall. And so there was millions of ways to describe anxiety frustrated, disappointed. You know, and it's not always the same word. But the bottom line is getting present is a practice. The awareness is when we're feeling too much future or future tripping, you know, we want to come back to the present moment as hard as it is. And it's the same with going into our history where we would do things differently. We can reflect on that, but coming into the present moment and meeting the moment fully is the name of the game. 

And was that look like you could practice, practice, practice and not be present? And that's okay. Right. So you could go to Wawa. I'm an East Coast girl. You go to Wawa, Starbucks and forget how you got there. Okay? You could go to pickup for your kids and left your glasses in the house because you were doing three things at the same time. You could feel unclear in the morning, a little bit foggy and not yourself, even with a cup of coffee. Knowing that you are not fully present in that moment is the empowerment of not making the choice, not making the decision, and getting clear on what that looks like later. 

The flip side to getting present is you smell the flowers, you hear the birds. It's really that way, right? You're talking in a conversation with somebody and you say, Sara, I really like what you said and you hear that person. So getting present is a practice, but you need to know if you are or you're not and what that looks like to get there. Yeah, those are great examples. I think one thing that would be helpful, and, you know, somebody who faces anxiety before my mammograms and breast MRI and colonoscopies and skin screenings, all the things that come with having Lynch syndrome and check to mutations, I don't think I'm alone when I am looking for some, maybe some small or meaningful daily practice or tools that you could recommend. To stay grounded, especially before those screenings and doctor's appointments. I mean, I have white coat syndrome. You know, I go to the doctor and my blood pressure is, like, ridiculous. And then I come home and it's totally fine. Right. 

And so I know that we could benefit from some recommendations on staying grounded and being present and things that we can do before those appointments. And that's a real thing. Or I call it my kids say they get the Sunday scares. And I say there's this thing called the screening scare, which happened not on a Sunday night, necessarily, but a couple days before. And so it's a real thing that worried before scans and health results. And it's very draining. And our nervous system tends to spike, get really hyper-vigilant. And our thoughts start to spiral into different worst case scenarios. 

And these tools that Sara is talking about are which help us stay grounded, soften the edges and bring us into the present moment. And something I talk a lot around is graceful grit. What does graceful grit mean for scans? It's like that sweet spot, meeting the moment with courage, but allowing yourself to soften in it. Right? So you don't really want to go to the scan, but you go to the scan, you don't really want to make the appointment, but you make the appointment. And it's the courage to do the thing. And at the same time, to have the softness for yourself. That this sucks. It feels awful. You want to go buy all your doctor's new coats so that they're not white, that they have, like, little smiley faces on them. And how do you live with that? Like day in and day out? So I'm just going to give you some examples of what grace would look like and what grit would look like. Grace is allowing yourself to be han, right? So it's not bottling up or pushing down that this sucks. 

You acknowledge this hard, I'm allowed to feel scared or that you have white coat syndrome, like Sara said. And it means letting go of any sort of judgment around it and being that anxious or frustrated or fatigued. Maybe it's your 15th year of doing this scan, or maybe you've done four and they're waiting for the clean one. I don't know, but grace means giving yourself the permission to rest, cry, and lean on others while you wait, where grit allows you to steady yourself through the weight, right? Because it's never over at the appointment. It's ongoing, you know? 

And so it's it's how do you stay grounded and kind of, you know, feel your feet, you show up for the skin, you make the appointments even though you feel this, you know, you're like you said, your elevated blood pressure or your heart pounding grit isn't here. Forcing positivity. It's staying present, taking the next step even when fear is loud. What if this happens? What if that happens? But it's moving through that space and it's hard. It's really hard. The tools of breath are mantras, things like that, you know, allow you to stay in the work of being gritty. If we balance grace and grit when it comes to screening scaries, if you do all grit and know grace, you push through and what happens is you feel brittle at the edges and disconnected to yourself and everybody else in the world. 

When we're all grace and no grit, we kind of avoid our feelings. We avoid talking about it. And the one thing I know is if you don't feel the feelings, they'll find you. You're going to feel them at some point. Maybe it's the wrong situation or the wrong person, but we want to feel the feelings and together, graceful grit allows us to be tender with yourself and keep going, uh, at times when you don't want to. 

So an example would be I hold my fear with gentleness or grace while also walking into the appointment with courage, which is great. Would you like some examples of what that would look like? 

Sara 

Yeah, that would be great. 

Lisa

So Grace is acknowledgement, right? This is really hard. It sucks. It's okay that I feel nervous. Place your hand over your heart and kind of maybe slow your breath down with some sort of breathwork or just five inhales and exhales. Noticing the first one where it's, you know, your heart's really feeling fast, and probably by the fifth one you start to slow down a little bit. Your nervous system. Another example of grace would be grounding down. So you're feeling your feet. I'm here. My feet are on the floor and I am breathing. 

And let me tell you something. If you're holding your breath, you're not breathing, right. How many times have we been in situations where we're lightheaded? Right. Or something happens that triggers us and tells us that we are holding us. We're really scared and nervous as we're putting the needle in, or we're scared and nervous to ask the question. Just notice it and start inhaling and letting it go. Notice three things. What's another one for grit? Affirming your strength. I've done hard things. I can walk through this with courage. Maybe you do. Breathe in for four counts, hold for four counts and let out for six, because you want to let go of more than you're taking in, right? You're probably holding on to shorter breaths. Another one for grit. Committing to the next step. I really like this. I don't have to do all the day at once. I can do bite sized, I can do a scan. I can do an appointment. I don't need to piggyback them in because I have two hours to drive and I want to get it all done. Maybe I can do one telehealth. Maybe I can do one in person. But bite size usually allows the space to do the one thing and take you out of that fear. And the last one is around balancing grit and grace, so noticing that you're safe in the moment, softening your jaw, letting your shoulders relax, and taking that breath that you might need. But I have other examples for grounding yourself. But that's specific to managing or balancing is a better word. The soft and the hard, the grace and the grit. 

Sara

Yeah, those are great examples and I will definitely take some of those with me. This will be very helpful. I think in the moment I'm being present, but then the minute they're like the example you gave giving, maybe you're getting a shot or something like that. Or in my head, I was picturing myself getting the contrast that you before your breast MRI and I'm I'm holding my breath like I'm holding my breath while they're giving me the medicine. And instead of just relaxing through it. Because the more you tense up, there's a physical thing that's happening when you tense up, like, but then I just need to let it go because then you get inside the machine. If anyone's listening, that's been inside a breast MRI machine, it is quite uncomfortable. And you're there for 30 to 45 minutes with your arms above your head. It's a little bit of a challenge. And so putting some of these approaches into my mindset, going into that experience will certainly help me navigate that a little bit more smoothly, I think. And it's you're right. It takes practice. Right? My third one. So hopefully each time it gets better. 

Lisa

Yeah. So and point around rituals sometimes with things like scans or the tests that we occur every year for 10-15 years. Or four times a year. There could be rituals that you want to put in place that you can count on and depend on, and we can come back to that. But what made me think of it as you in this scan, you know, maybe there's a playlist or a song or something that will allow you always to know that it's there. It's not different, and it's something that might bring you comfort. 

Sara

Hmm. I like that idea because they do give you headphones. It's just a very practical way that I can say hey can you do this playlist just for me. Okay I like that suggestion. All right. Good. Thank you for that. And maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but this kind of graceful grit I love that term. But we're being vulnerable. We're asking ourselves to be vulnerable. Right. In a sense. , and again, let's face it, if you're facing a health risk for the rest of your life, help me understand what this can look like for someone managing chronic worry or risk. You know, we just gave went through a few examples that are like in the moment, right. And being present. But now let's talk about like this is a vulnerability that is being asked of us going into these appointments. And, you know, people who don't have to face maybe a chronic illness or a lifetime of scans and screening. We have these, you know, tools that we can take with us in the moment. But those of us facing hereditary risk, you know, it's not just one screening and we're done. Right? Okay. I got to be back in six months or a year from now. So, you know, how do we manage this from a chronic worry or risk perspective? Do you have any other suggestions? Like, you gave us some awesome examples for in the moment and being present and dealing with it with that graceful grit. How can we approach this maybe from a longer term perspective? 

Lisa

Yeah. So when I think of that, I think of fatigue. Is that what you're speaking to and the fatigue. Yeah. So so burnout and fatigue, you know, going for ten years for screenings, 15 years for scans, another x ray, another biopsy, another whatever. It gets tiring. Right. I'm happy to share different tools, but I think the most important thing to recognize, if you take nothing else away, is that you feel that way. What that looks like. So if you're burnt out and you're fatigued, we go to like the list that you put in your phone or the list you put in your computer to different things, maybe to mix it up a little bit, maybe the playlist you've used for the last ten years, maybe Sara Borelli or James Taylor is too soft. Maybe you need to put Coldplay on or something like that and it's time to level up. It's time to change it up. Maybe you've been going to the scans all these years or the tests by yourself. Maybe it's time because you're dragging and you're feeling not yourself to say, you know, I would like a couple more people to keep me company. I would like to add in breakfast or gift giving, gift buying afterwards. I mean, these are just like random things, but I'm happy to use the ones that I prepared. 

But the thing is, the knowing that the fatigues there and talking to the people that care about you, the professionals, and figuring out like what you need to do to mix it up, to change it up to honor your healing at the same time as you honor your health. 

Sara

I love that, and I love the suggestion of bringing a friend along, uh, or doing something special for yourself before and after. I've heard that as an example. But I tend to go to these appointments other than my colonoscopy because I can't drive home. My husband comes along for that, but usually I go during the day because I feel like I don't want to inconvenience him or have him take time off of work. And I'm like, oh, this is just something I need to do. But to be honest, having somebody there, it does change the experience and probably for the better. So I love that idea. 

Lisa

Well, not always, but yeah, I think you have to choose carefully. Sara, I think sometimes you can't always choose a warrior. You can't always choose somebody that's going to show up more concerned than you are, because the whole point of view is you're struggling, right? And so it has to be thoughtful. It has to be mindful. It could be that every three, three times you go, you ask the that person or you say, this is how I need you to show up for me. Can you do that? You know, because the thing about this journey and chronic worry and chronic illness is it's always going to be there, you know? And so you how do you meet the moment when you feel this way? And some people might feel this way all the time. Some people might go with people all the time. So switching it up for them might be going by themselves. 

But here's some just a couple examples of hacks for me which allow you to maybe repeat it, reframe it. Remind yourself before you spiral. Remind yourself. You're feeling the fatigue on what you want to do about it. There's short, sticky. Designed to be portable in your head in journal. I tell all my clients, I tell anybody. Have your list of 5 to 7 on your phone. Have it on your computer. Share it with your partner. You know? No, because in that moment when you feel awful, you feel tired. You feel vulnerable saying you're tired of somebody or that you don't want to go by yourself is vulnerable when you've always been like, I can do this by myself. And that doesn't necessarily feel, you know, good. 

And so I always say, go, go back to your list. And if the first three is the way you've always been doing it, maybe try the fourth now. So name it, tame it number one instead of I'm freaking out. This is scanxiety. It's a natural response. So you're labeling it. This is what I'm feeling. I have scans ID right now. And the feeling separates you from the fear. You have it, but it doesn't have you. Another one is shift from the outcome to the process, asking yourself, what am I in control with right now? Usually it's your breath, your posture, your environment, your support network. You know you're struggling in the process. What do you need? Do you need to buy yourself gifts after everyone? Like your favorite coffee? Do you need to bring someone along for the ride? Sometimes you need to train and not drive yourself. Maybe you just want to like, fold into a book. And so this the results of this are future territory. You know, you're taking care of yourself in the present moment. So your mind, you know, future trip, you know, I call future tripping. The what? You know, the worrying about what could happen. You know, and it hasn't happened yet. Right? So if you want to take a future trip, it's like packing a bag filled with worries. What happens if nothing happens? You're not going to have the right clothes anyway. The third one in interrupt is spiral. How do you do that when your mind says, what if this happens? Right? How do you interrupt the spiral? Even if it does happen that way, I can handle it. And that's a thought, not a fact. 

You know, I really like this practice in the mental muscle to stop catastrophizing. I like to say it out loud to somebody, you know. These are the thoughts that are going in my head. These are the stories I'm making up, you know. Are they real or not? And usually the other person will say, I have no idea what you're talking about. And so it's out of my head. , but everyone's different times. I also self-talk practice, you know, self. What are you thinking right now? You know, I've done hard things before. I can do this again. Or is this really my reality or am I just making this up? That one I think is a little bit harder sometimes you got to ask somebody, because sometimes we think our thoughts are real and they're not. 

The fourth one, borrowing, come from the future. Imagine the moment after the appointment, your results, no matter what they are, when you're talking to someone you trust, you breathe normally. You're taking the next step and your nervous system responds as if it's already there. I think this is not attachment, which is a whole ‘nother podcast. The practice of non-attachment is so so, so so hard. But it's going to the doctor's appointment and knowing that whatever the outcome is, you're not attached to it. It could be great. It could be awful. That's not easy to do, right? Because we always hope that it's going to be nothing. But practicing non-attachment is one of the hardest practices that I think, but it allows us to interrupt the push, pull the resistance, the future tripping right and not go to that scenario. 

So you're just basically your nervous system is calm for the future of whatever you're here you can handle. That's a little bit one of a nuanced one, you know, I think, and the last one is anchored to a micro goal. Instead of waiting days for peace, create the tiny wins. Along the way, I'm going to focus on the next thing. I'm going to make myself a healthy lunch. I'll finish the puzzle piece by piece. So small completions remind your brain that you're capable and safe. I also think a micro goal can be turning on that creative mind or learning something new in that moment. 

So a lot of times I'm a big fan of walking a different way, getting lost, finding your way out, you know, take your dog and and challenge yourself. You know, walk in the rain, put an umbrella up and come home with a story about how hard that was. Like, it takes you out of of that moment and brings you into firing up different parts of your brain. Talk to yourself like you've heard a friend. You talk to a friend that I think everybody has heard that sooner or later. But the thing is, is we don't listen to how we talk to ourselves. So if you're not being kind and you're saying, oh God, what's wrong with you? Or why am I broken? Or why did I do that? You know, my kids always say, you hear me talk. Oh, I'm such a pickle head. Like, figure out the way you're talking to yourself. And if you would talk that way to someone that you care about, that's great. And if it's not, then you have to figure out a way to be kinder and gentler. And that could be turning on a movie that makes you cry. It could be going into another room and reading a book again. It could be doing nothing but honoring what that looks like. 

Another one is replacing wonder, waiting with wonder. So curiosity interrupts dread. I always say curiosity and judgment are two sides of the same coin. If we're judging ourselves, or we're judging the doctor or judging someone else, we're not curious. And curiosity allows us to not be fearful, not dread the thing. And so, you know, I wonder how the nurse will greet me. I wonder if the new coat I bought the doctor. So he's not always wearing white if he's wearing the green one. I wonder what small kindness I noticed today. Have you ever said the doctor? Hi. How are you? You know, you were so, like, programmed to be like on the defense. I'm waiting for what they say to us. They could have had a bad day. The person you know behind us or in front of us could have had worse news, could have, you know, breathe, be here. And the tying to it's worked. And so all these mindset hacks. Are helpful, but not everyone will work every time, and knowing which ones help you and support you and allow you to meet the moment where it is the most important thing. Even if you're not being present, that's okay, but just do what you need to do to get present. 

Sara

Yeah, I love that you brought up the curiosity piece, because to me, that is one question that I am working to adapt and that being present. You gave a great example when you're with the doctor, like, okay, if if it feels strange to ask this question, that's okay. They probably heard it all. And it's okay to be vulnerable and ask that question. Be curious even if it's not totally related to what you're going through. 

Lisa

I love that. I love yeah, I'm curious as a is a great mindset. It is a great mindset. And you brought up a really good point, which I didn't touch on. But I always say, your body will tell you when you're tense, when your jaw is clenched, your stomach is hurting you. Your shoulders, you know, aren't back. And so judgment shows up in our body. So whatever you have and wherever you feel it, it's a gift. Notice it. Ooh. You know, my shoulders are really tight or I can't move my jaw or I'm not breathing. I'm holding my breath and then get curious as to why. So I'm in fear. I know the doctor is going to say the thing I don't want to hear. And no. And reframing that to getting curious, like you said, is what if the doctor is not going to say that? Or what if? You know, I'm curious about why he's late versus mad. You just start to understand that your body's going to tell you when you're pissed off or annoyed or frustrated or upset with yourself, and use it as a gift to get curious on what what's really going on. 

Sara

Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned that things I and I'm imagining that your yoga practice has made you more self-aware of those things. We talked a bit about this on my episode with Marina Mukundala, about noticing things when you're in your yoga practice and you're on the mat and you don't have to be a yoga practicing person to do this, it can be in the moment. But you brought up a great example. You know, when you're practicing yoga, you know your jaw is tense or your shoulders are up or or again, using that breathing example, asking yourself that question, like going through from head to toe in that moment and noticing where you're feeling that tension. So many things that you've talked about today, that being vulnerable by asking yourself that question, being present by feeling what you're feeling in that moment and being curious like I'm just seeing all of these things come together and, you know, wrapping that all up into a way that you can do some self-reflection in these moments. 

Lisa

And that is where it starts. You, you, you move through awareness to. You know, the the meat and potatoes. I always say, ah, vulnerability is like the being and courage is the doing. And then you move to, you know, action. Right. Like what's the the next baby step. But the alignment comes right after awareness. Like you get on your mat, you go for your run and your sneakers are worn. And so you're like, darn, I need new sneakers. How far do I want to go today? I had noticed that. And so the awareness leads to the alignment on like, how do I need to fix that today? Or you get in your car and the steering is off and then I wouldn't go a thousand miles, I would probably go 20. And so getting vulnerable, getting the moment where it is and then kind of moving through is is a practice and it's moment to moment, you know, hour and hour a day to day, you know, you could have the best intention and then meet the moment completely. The moment shows up completely differently. 

Sara

It sure does. Well let's do a quick transition before we start wrapping up talking about reflecting. We're approaching the seasonal shift here. Like I said in the introduction really symbolizing seasons of transitions. You know like what are these opportunities of self awareness or intention setting. What are what are things that they can do to sort of reframe that mindset? If you could leave our audience with 1 or 2 grounding reminders for when they feel overwhelmed, what would that be? 

Lisa

Yeah, I love that. I think seasons of weather like fall, winter, spring, smer are just like seasons of life. And so, you know, I think with each season there's changes and how do we meet those changes. So we'll just talk a little bit about fall because we're in summer now. And so fall's the season of awareness and intention setting. It teaches from an awareness standpoint. It's about letting go. Just like the tree would let go of the leaves, we can notice where we're still holding on to maybe habits that we want to get rid of. Commitments, thought patterns that no longer serve us. So fall invites reflection. What in my life might feel heavy right now as we go into fall? What is ready to be released? Because we're coming out of summer where everything is light and breezy and it's more reflective time in the fall. 

And how does intention show up once we see the awareness and once we clear out the space? Because that's the thing, you can't add one more thing through to do list or one more thing to your life. When you don't have the space to do it, you have to let go of something to create the space to add it in. So setting intentions with more clarity. Grounding energy is perfect for slowing down. Simplifying. Planting seeds for what we want to carry into the winter and beyond. Any some questions that we could ask. What do I want to carry forward with intention and a simple practice? As the days grow shorter, you could light a candle at night and use that moment, like I mentioned before as a ritual, to name one thing you're letting go of and one intention that you're welcoming in. 

And this is really helpful as we turn into the falls, is like my favorite time of the year. I just love it. It's everything about it, the colors, the energy, as you have heard all about awareness. And it's a time of reflection. And so I highly recommend keeping in your pocket your phone, your journal. Like I said before, when overwhelm might come in the new seasons as we pack up and move from smer to fall or fall to winter, or put away our clothes, the first grounding reminder can be anchoring in the present moment. Right now I'm safe, for my breath. 

Is my anchor another one? Reduce the size of the moment like we talked about a little bit before. Take the next micro step. This is one wave, not the whole ocean. How many times do we think, oh my God, all these things are happening to us? When it's like just the one little wave, but it sends us down and I can pause. I can press pause without falling behind. 

Number three, which I'm a big fan of. I've spoken before where you're connecting to your body, feeling your feet on the ground, relaxing your shoulders, and clenching your jaw. Find your physical practice that you need. Go take that run. Go that walk. Interrupting the spiral. Noticing if it's a thought, a fact. And borrowing strength from the past. I've said this before about doing hard things. You've done it before. You can do it again. But it's reconnecting to that. And all these different tools and tricks can be matched with the sensory. Touching the table, feeling your feet on the floor, you know, listening to the bird outside and noticing with all your senses which will anchor you in the present moment. 

Sara

All right. Thank you again, Lisa. This has been phenomenal. I really appreciate you and just the work that you're doing to help make the world a better place. How can our audience connect with you? Maybe learn more about your coaching work. Engage with your programs. Give us your information. 

Lisa

Awesome. Thank you, sir, for having me. You are the true person, making a difference and empowering all these people with tools and education and knowledge. It's really important to navigate uncertainty because the only thing that we can count on is change. 

So scans it can feel overwhelming, but it doesn't have to define you. If you're curious about tools, practices, coaching, support in any of this to feel more grounded and confident. Let's talk, let's connect. 

My website is www.practicetothepoint.com. My email is Lisa@practicetothepoint.com and like I mentioned earlier, practice to the point or practice to make the points always changing, right? And so practice to the point brings the clarity as you move through everything from awareness to action and then into the meat and potatoes in the middle around alignment. Thank you for having me on the show again. 

And if you'd like to learn anything more about working with me or anything I touched on today, you'll see on the website. I do coaching group work as well as I speak on the stage and I'm used for resources. I'd love to hear from you and I'd love to connect. And thanks again, Sara, for having me. 

Sara

Thank you. Do you have some social handles that you want to add as well, like LinkedIn or Instagram? 

Lisa

Actually, yeah. Thanks for the reminder. I'm on LinkedIn under Lisa Jacobs. There's also a practice to the point on Instagram. But you can find me. You can message me, friend me. Let me know if you have any questions or curiosities for sure. 

Sara

Well, we'll include all of your contact information in the show notes and on the positive Gene podcast blog, so make sure we have your information there. Uh, and again, folks, if you want to follow along with more conversations like this, you can find me on Instagram as well @positivegenepodcast. I'm also on LinkedIn. I don't talk about that very much, but I am on LinkedIn as well. 

So I hope this conversation with Lisa has given you space to breathe and maybe even exhale. Some of the fear that comes with the unknown, whether you're managing your next scan. Advocating for your health or simply showing up for yourself during a difficult season. Remember, presence isn't passive. It's powerful. I might have gotten that phrase from you. I'm not sure where that came from.  But remember, if you're looking to learn more about Lisa's work or connect with her again, you'll find the links in the show notes. And as always, thank you for being a part of this community where we talk about honest topics. We talk about hope and humanity and leading the way.

So until next time, take care of yourself. You're doing better than you think. 

Links:

• Practice to the Point: www.practicetothepoint.com

• Connect with Lisa: LinkedIn (Lisa Jacobs / Lisa Berg Jacobs), IG: @practicetothepoint

• Follow the podcast on IG: @positivegenepodcast

• Full transcript & extras: https://thepositivegenepodcast.podbean.com/

Disclaimer:

This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider with any questions about your health.

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